HM Basic and the upcoming advanced version is a totally new game that, while it retains some of the attitude of HM4, isn't a joke game. It's not a parody or a satire, even though some gamers might see it as such. The tone's not one I especially dig myself, but I don't want anyone to think that HM Basic isn't a "real" game. It most definitely is and it's meant to be played straight.
Don't let the fact that it has a sense of humor about itself fool you. I really enjoy Knights of the Dinner Table, but Hackmaster 4th was way too crunchy for me, plus any game that would encourage the behavior we see around the Knights' table is kind of scary. I may be in the minority, but as a Class of 81 Basic graduate I found the cover off putting.
Otus copying Otus doesn't do it for me. It's a mix bag but I do like quite a few things in it. I think the Kenzer guys hit the nail right on the head were they say you can make HMB as silly as you want or dead serious. I enjoyed reading the core HackMaster books as satire, but was put off by the level of complexity, even for something as fundamental as character creation.
I had hopes for HMB, but I'll definitely steer clear after reading your review, since I was hoping for a lean "blue box" or "red box" presentation that would not try my limited patience for complex chargen and combat systems. My problem with the dice chapter are 1 it's a copy of the dice chapters from previous editions, 2 it's a free download 3 they claim game is now no longer a parody 4 there are important things missing from HMB that could have gone in those pages.
I must be the only one who loves that initiative system. I think if more people actually tried it out preferably with some props like I did they would have different view. Mine is - it is faster, easier to track durations of stuff, more dynamic and fuller of tension than the per round systems.
But, we're largely in agreement. You said it best "it'll appeal greatly to the kind of people it appeals to". I think it works really well. Not that I normally use it, but, still, it's a terrific mechanic.
I found the book to be a rather enjoyable read. However its what I would describe as Neu Old School. Its very much written with an old school mentality but with some newer rule mechanics for example all the stats have real value, even to a tank fighter and Ive always been a huge fan of the honor rules Kenzer has developed.
Its very crunchy but there are definitely rules I would strip out to use in a more low complexity OSR game like Initiative and Honor. To everyone bashing the dice chapter: It wasn't originally intended to be included, but the printer did it's runs in bunches of 16 if I remember correctly pages, and the original count came in under that.
Instead of cutting some of the actual content, they took the dice chapter from HM4 and added a little to it the day the print run was to start. In other words, the dice chapter was never going to be anything else, and if it wasn't included there would have actually been less content. Just one of those strange quirks of the printing buisness. I think that's a very fair review, James. HackMaster Basic is not for me either, but it has many good bits and pieces, and even - dare I say it? The char gen system for one, while complex, is a cool little solo sub-game by itself.
So I believe that there's quite a market for HackMaster out there. Played a few session of this, and I hated it. When a game which calls itself "basic" is more complex to play than 3e and 4e , something is amiss. Oh, not to say the appeal to "old-school". If there is something old-school, I haven't found it. Just a point of order aside: the "generic clerics" that you pointed out are, in fact, not generic. They are specific deities of the Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign setting.
They have generic sounding names because one of the premises of the setting is that all peoples worship the same deities, but know them by different names, and so from the high level like this, they get referred to by titles such as "The Caregiver" and "The Overlord" rather than specific names that have been applied to them.
Your review of HMB largely mirrors my own feelings on this. It's basic only in comparison to what is coming, though to be honest, I"m of mixed opinions here. I really do like the basic underlying system here. It just looks too much like a fetishistic exercise in book keeping that keeps turning me off. I do recommend to you, though, the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting, if only as a very excellent campaign world that learned a great deal from Greyhawk and is, if I'm allowed to gush just a little, a spiritual successor to the style of Gygax's Greyhawk with a little of Forgotten Realm's style thrown in.
I've been running a campaign now for a little over 6 months and our group has been really enjoying it. Now, I know it's not for everyone, but it certainly has worked for us. We haven't really had an issue with the level of crunch as much of that is in character creation. One thing I'd like to point out as well is that we've really found that it plays different and better than it reads, and I like how it reads.
Although the first combat or two were a little shaky, we quickly got in the groove of the initiative system and everyone has REALLY loved it as it gets them more engaged. Although you start with more HP than in 1e, keep in mind that not only do weapons penetrate explode on max numbers, but generally do double the damage of 1e weapons. For example, a longsword does 2d8 plus str modifier.
Suddenly starting with 30 hp isn't so much Although I can understand the concern with complexity of so many seemingly advanced rules being in the "basic" game, I do feel they are core to the system and needed.
This really changes the dynamics of the fight as you can't count on being up at full fighting strength until you run out of HP. My final thing to point out is that the "power curve" during character advancement is shallower than in many games.
As was mentioned in the review, you only get a full hit die every other level and your other abilities also increase at a slower rate than in some other games. What I love about this is that encounters such as orcs and goblins are still dangerous at higher levels. In the end, everyone has their own styles and play preferences and I know this isn't for everyone, but it's been great for our group.
I run a game just west of the GTA if anyone ever wants to give it a try. I think people are going a little over the top on the complexity angle here. Once you've run through one combat the game goes like clockwork. Most of the number crunching is done as chargen and the answers are then on your character sheet for future reference. That's certainly possible.
It makes sense to me that there might be similar regional gaming "cultures" in other parts of the world. This is where the notion of "gamer cultures" probably comes into play.
Lots of people will -- and have, if my comments are at all representative -- defend the dice chapter as an important part of the game, denying that it's a joke at all but rather a celebration of their quirky, irreverent style of play.
I think that's a perfectly valid point of view, even if my own sympathies lie elsewhere. As I see it, HM Basic is a very particular kind of game and it's written for a particular audience.
Not being part of that audience, a lot of goes over our heads or is misconstrued as something it's not. That's not deny the validity of our criticisms of it, but I think it's important to place HM in its proper context and understand that, like many things in life, it's probably an acquired taste.
One man's caviar is another man's cat food, after all. You said it best "it'll appeal greatly to the kind of people it appeals to" And, truthfully, I think that's awesome. There's frankly too much expectation that I or anyone else like the same things as everybody else. There are, for example, lots of books, movies, and TV shows that get plaudits for every corner that I simply cannot stand. Rather than simply accept that I like different things because I'm an individual , I get people trying to "prove" to me that my dislikes are irrational and that I should give X, Y, or Z another chance.
That attitude really irks me. I know nothing of Kalamar, so thanks for pointing that out. Speaking for myself, crunchy character creation isn't something I look for in an old school fantasy RPG. If I can't create a character in 10 minutes or less, then it's too complex for my purposes.
I realize that's a minority opinion these days, which is why I don't fault HM for being more complex than that, even if I don't have any interest in it myself. Complexity is relative. And, I'm going to be frank here, a game whose cover is an homage to the Moldvay rulebook, painted by the the very same artist as the original, does set up the expectation that it's a pretty mechanically simple game. Certainly, the game's introduction makes it clear that it's "basic" in the sense of providing "the basic rules" to Advanced HackMaster.
That's fair enough, but, as I say, I don't think anyone can be faulted for assuming, based on its title and the cover illustration, that it's more in the vein of Moldvay or Mentzer than it actually is or was ever intended to be. I'd call that a bit of false advertising. JB- I hope I don't come off as a jerk here, but I don't think they are marketing their game as a "hand-holding-welcome-to-roleplaying-games" game.
I look at it as the experienced gamer who wants to take the next step, not the new gamer looking to try out rpgs. It has all the rules for characters , a decent equipment section, good list of spells and a really good section on monsters.
I'd say that's pretty complete for what a person would need to play the game. I said it before and I'll say it again, I would love to play this game given the chance to.
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